Jim Harbaugh compares Bradshaw non-fumble to tuck rule
Sixteen years ago, 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh saw a berth in the Super Bowl evaporate after teammate Quentin Coryatt failed to secure a pass from Steelers quarterback Neil O’Donnell that hit Coryatt right in the stomach. On Sunday, another near miss on a turnover helped keep the former Colts quarterback’s team from getting back to Indianapolis.
Giants running back Ahmad Bradshaw caught a short pass late in regulation, and he immediately was pushed backward. Before he hit the ground, the ball came out. And the 49ers recovered.
But the officials ruled that Bradshaw’s forward progress had been stopped. Thus, no fumble. And no turnover.
On Monday, Harbaugh expressed his displeasure with the ruling.
“In my opinion, that was a fumble,” Harbaugh said Monday, via NFL.com. “I’m sure the league will defend it and the officials will defend it. But to me, that play was still going on. There was still struggling by Bradshaw. . . . I felt like it was analogous with the tuck rule.”
As much as we like and respect the man who without question was the NFL’s coach of the year, Harbaugh has this one wrong. The rule regarding forward progress is used routinely, the tuck rule sparingly.
In this specific case, Bradshaw’s forward progress was stopped. He was being yanked backward, not falling forward. So it was a good call. (As was the use of the tuck rule a decade ago.)
The only remaining question is whether Harbaugh’s comments crossed the vague and at times shifting line between what will and won’t get a head coach fined for criticizing the officials.
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the tuck rule still doesn’t make sense to anyone watching or hearing the rationale of that rule.
Harbaugh has to accept the whistle was blowing before the ball came loose….after that it’s all academic
The raiders had the lead still at the time of that call. They choked that game away.
while the 2 rules are entirely different, Harbaugh has a point. that was a very quick whistle on that play and more times than not those plays are not stopped that quickly, thus resulting in a fumble.
Grasping at straws Jim.
NFL east coast bias….
bay area teams robbed is nothing new to us..
make up and translate rules as you go…
sound right?
Forward progress is called frequently, but they usually give it a couple seconds to play out. That whistle was blown pretty darn quick.
That WAS a fumble
I know they blew the whistle, but his knee was NOT down when that ball popped lose.
That was the WORST forward progress call I’ve ever seen! I’ve seen players stop progress a good 5+ seconds with no whistle… just HORRIBLE!!!
Jim Harbaugh seems like a D*Bag
I really don’t know what to think of that call. His forward progress was stopped but at what point is the play really over? Immediately when forward progress is stopped?
Shut up Jim. Blaming that call is an excuse because your team couldn’t get it done. You leave it in the officials hands, you’ll always lose.
It was a fumble.
Sounds like Jim has a case of the “Mondays”
Losing respect for u jimmy. C’mon, lose gracefully. It’s over jimmy, it’s over.
Jim, aren’t you late for the Harbowl?
Bummer.
thinwhiteduke76
His Kneed does not have to be down for fwd progress to be stopped. Harbaugh is a classless jerk who could barely even give Coughlin a hand shake and then refused to speak with FOX, who pays over $ 1 Billion a season to televise NFC games.
As for everyone saying they usually give a second, watch almost any catch where a WR catches the ball and then gets tackled backwards. he always gets the most fwd spot and this as no different.
BTW Harbs: how about your boy Davis, stepping out of bounds on his first TD. Or the fact that the Giants got called for holding and you did not?
Jim Harbaugh has lost credibility and is nothing but a cry baby. No wonder this creep could never lead a team to a Super Bowl as a player.
You know how we all know it was NOT a fumble? Because the NY Giants had the ball on the next play. The forward progress call was the correct call. The players forward momentum had been stopped and he was being pushed backwards. The call was made by HL Mark Hittner who is one of the best HL in the league.
John Harbaugh’s team whines, Jim Harbaugh whines.
Maybe these guys are on the wrong teams?
the knee doesnt have to be down for the play to be called dead. when the running backs forward progress is stopped, the play if over.
WAHHH. As for the last comment about the ball coming out before his knee was down… Should someone explain what forward progress means?
@thinwhiteduke do you know or understand the rules of football? You don’t have to be down for the whistle to be blown, and the play to be over. Forward progress is used very frequently to rule a player down.
The whistle blew at the appropriated time of his forward progress being stopped. The play was dead, and forward progress cannot be reviewed. I don’t even know why this is considered an issue, and as a Raiders fan, I am feel comparing it to the “Tuck Rule” is a completely false and off base arguement.
Everybody and anybody who’s not affiliated or a fan of the 49ers knows Bradshaw’s foward progress was stopped and it was the right call. Hell, I can’t stand the Giants and was root for the 49ers to win and even I thought it was the correct call.
You do not know the rule. The whistle I irrelevant. His progress was stopped. He was pushed to yards back. This is called all the time. Sure, let’s have a ame where players get picked up, carried backward while the whole team takes a whack at knocking the ball out. Sounds awesome. Harbaugh sounds smaller and smaller with each subsequent comment. No class.
The knee does not have to be down Per the NFL 2011 Rule Book
Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared.
(b) when a runner is held or otherwise restrained so that his forward progress ends;
The runner was going backwards, his forward progress had been stopped
hinwhiteduke76 says:Jan 23, 2012 10:40 PM
That WAS a fumble
I know they blew the whistle, but his knee was NOT down when that ball popped lose.
- – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
knee doesn’t have to be down to stop someone’s foward progress. You see it all the time. Plus as you mention the whistle was blown.
Cry babies…………..season over, end of story. No more stories about the harbaugh’s please.
It’s okay Jim, you were not defeated.
even with the Raiders outta the playoffs
they are ALWAYS INVOLVED and have a hand in things,
ha , get it ,
a hand,
sterling moore
tuck rule – bradshaw fumble,
You guys are all wrong, the whistle blew well after the ball popped out. I have no idea what game you were all watching especially the first poster.
Excuses are like ass.holes…… everyone’s got one and they all stink.
I’ll agree on one point. the forward progress rule is utilized more than the tuck… way f’n more!!! no one had ever heard of a “tuck” before the NFL dusted the cobwebs off that section of the rule book for the “beloved” Tom Brady. I’m not one to think that every call that goes against the raiders is a conspiracy, but I do believe the league wants certain teams in the championship games! sure took a long time to review what was obviously a fumble.
Jim Harbaugh did a great job with the 49ers this season. That being said, he needs to learn how to win with class and also to lose with class. His alleged shoving of a Fox producer and refusing an interview after the conclusion of the game, along with his comments today criticizing the officiating are inexcusable and need to be addressed by the league. Somebody needs to let this guy know that wether he wins or loses, he must act in a professional manner at all times. I’m sure he isnt the only person that needs to be told this, but as a coach he needs to be held to a higher standard.
The thing that sucks about this rule, like all others, is that the offense always gets the benefit of the doubt. If Bradshaw somehow get’s free from the tackle after being pushed back, I highly doubt the whistle blows.
If they called forward progress as quick as they did yesterday then Eli Manning would have never had a chance to complete the helmet catch…
Nobody said he knee was down, thinwhiteduke76.
When the whistle blows, the play is OVER.
The whistle blows when forward progress is STOPPED.
Any moron can see the runner was being dragged BACKWARDS, which is opposite of FORWARD, as you may know. Forward progress being stopped means no more yards are being gained, and being dragged backwards certainly qualifies.
I was cheering for the Niners, but I sure have lost a ton of respect for Harbaugh and for some whiny fans for trying to muddy the logic/motives behind a perfectly straightforward call.
The play is dead once the whistle is blown.You lost get over it
Nothing special about this play. The officials had blow the whistle well before the fumble occurred. Nothing to do with forward momentum preventing the fumble. The whistle (because the official thought it momentum was over) ended the play.
Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared.
(b) when a runner is held or otherwise restrained so that his forward progress ends; or
There’s a difference between not liking a rule and thinking a rule has been applied incorrectly.
Once again the refs blew the whistle too early. They cost the the Lions a possible win against the Saints. They almost cost the Broncos a win vs the Steelers. Just hold the whistle a little while longer to make sure you get the play right.
On another note, am I the only one that thinks that the Lee Evans non-td call should’ve at least been reviewed. If I recall earlier in the season from the Packers-Giants first game, that if the WR has control and two feet in bounds and is not going to the ground it’s a touchdown. I’m not saying Evans had two feet in before the knockdown. I just think it at least should’ve been viewed.
that rule blows, it’s fine for a qb because you are trying to keep them from getting hurt, but anyone else the play shouldnt stop until hes down or out of bounds.. Look at any game gronkowski plays in, you think hes done, even the opponents players start standing around (yeah you DeAngelo Hall) because they think no way he’s going anywhere, then he’s slapping off the tacklers and off he goes again.
thinwhiteduke76,
Learn the rules. Your knee does not have to be down to have forward progress stopped. If you wanna complain the ref blew the whistle quickly, then you can make that point. It was a judgment call by the ref. Bradshaw was dragged back over a yard before the ball came out. Funny how you whiner fans are crying but I didn’t see you complaining when you got that ridiculous pass interference call in 2002. Karma is a #@%^. Maybe your team should have done something on offense in the second half. Stop cryin and get over it. You have a great defense and bright future.
Bradshaw was CLEARLY falling backwards – hence the whistle – hence the dead ball.
I respect Harbaugh for what he did to that 9er team, but he’s being a sore loser.
So lets see you just keep the runner straight up and don’t let him go down and the defense holds him up while, everyone else pulls the ball out of his hands. Lets see does that seem fair, I guess
if you are for the other team. Jim is just a sore loser. You need to go back and watch his anger
on the side lines. Rules or rules they did the same
thing in the Saints game.
Forward Progress and the “Tuck” rule are completely different, not even in the same book – and Harbaugh is sounding like a sore loser.
Just another of a long line of gray area rules and judgement calls in the NFL. Some games they blow the whistle quickly, and in others it seems like an eternity before it is blown, in the exact same situation. Too much variance from crew to crew and game to game.
And in regards to the “tuck rule”being applied correctly a decade ago, opinions vary. The wording of the rule is ambiguous at best, as it doesnt describe with any clear definition, when the ball is deemed to be “tucked”. In this case Brady had “tucked” the ball down to his midsection, with BOTH hands on the ball, when Woodson hit him.
In this case, common sense would tell you that the passing attempt was clearly over in this case, making it impossible for it to be irrefutably ruled and incomplete pass.
But since it is the NFL, and gambling is involved, common sense isn’t likely to come into play any time soon.
The tuck rule was a bad rule for the NFL, there’s no denying that. But the fact of the matter is that it was the rule of the NFL at the time. In fact, it was called against the Patriots earlier that year when they played the Jets, and while the call for a review came from up in the booth and not from Bellichick, you can be sure he was in the official’s ear and trying to make his case.
People can complain about it after the fact and chew their sour grapes but the fact is it was the rule. And anyone trying to say that ended the Raiders’ legacy, they made it to the Super Bowl the very next year, so please save it.
The one thing the refs continually get right is forward progress. Ever see that arm winding when a player is seemingly got out of bounds?
Can’t believe Harbaugh is whining. Let others complain and take the high road.
@pettergriffen
“bay area teams robbed”
I hate the Giants, but didn’t you escape with a win over NYG last time you played them in the playoffs? on a controversial [non-]call?
1st of all – AB was moving backwards for at least 2 yards. The Ref blew the whistle accordingly and as a result of the rule. And to avoid an injury.
Shut the mouth Jim!! and all your 9ers f**!
And you should be looking at your crappy QB and your WR-ing core. joke. who are they again? Alex Smith coming out party. over rated. and good luck with those free agents.
hahahahahahahahahaha
Thank God he took 24 hours to filter his thoughts after the game.
I don’t know why he or the whiner fans are still crying. THE WHISTLE WAS BLOWN! Play ends when the whistle is blown. No matter if the ball comes out, knee down, steps out etc. PLAY WAS OVER BEFORE THE FUMBLE! GET OVER IT. Instead ask why only 1 pass was completed to a WR for 3 yards! Ask why Alex Smith continued to throw the ball in the dirt at receivers feet over their heads and out of bounds. The week before the whiners won on turnovers (New Orleans was moving the ball at will on them, only the turnovers prevented a New Orleans blowout win) this week they lost on turnovers. Get over it. You overachieved this year with no QB no Wrs and a great defense. All this whining and complaining is sickening! WAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!
Hey Hairball !!!
you know what was a bigger travesty in that game, it was the fact that your offense wasn’t called for one holding penalty the whole game.
So stop crying and take it like a man !!!
Ok first off, regardless whether forward progress was determined, the fact remains that the ball was out before ANY whistle was blown. Not that one call wins or loses a game, Hochuli and Pereira both got it wrong. It was a fumble plain and simple.
.
progress was stopped, the whistle didnt matter
OK, it was a fumble.
Happy now?
The whistle is held to see if the runner can make a second effort. It has nothing to do with allowing the defense to strip the ball as a runner is falling backward with control of the ball. The play was not still going because the runner was unable to advance in an effort to gain more yards after being stopped initially. Had he held onto the ball would Harbaugh think the ball should have been spotted where the runner landed after he was tackled? I hope not.
Jim Harbaugh could learn something from Tim Tebow
Harbaugh is still stinging from the loss. I was surprised he wouldn’t even do the 30 second interview after the game with Fox. I can’t knock the job he did this year but I think he has a lot to learn about sportsmanship. I thought he embarrassed himself after the Lions game and pouted after this game instead of doing what every other coach manages to do.
Please just go away until next season
They blew that whistle in about a tenth of a second. Ref’s are supposed to swallow the whistle and let the play play out. He just as easily could have bounced out and ran it for a TD, would they have called it back if that happened?
Lesson: Keep the whistle quiet until you KNOW he is not escaping the tackle.